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Simon Marlow wrote:
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<pre wrap="">On 18 February 2005 04:26, Seth Kurtzberg wrote:
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<pre wrap="">At least this proves that it isn't a hardware problem. :)
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<pre wrap=""><!---->
Seth, you're a bit confused. This error from gcc is a deterministic,
repeatable, crash due to a known bug in gcc 2.95.
You were complaining about random unrepeatable crashes, which are most
likely caused by hardware failure. We never said that deterministic
crashes in gcc are due to hardware.
Cheers,
Simon
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Simon, you'll never give up. The crashes are absolutely repeatable.
The fact that I haven't identified a deterministic way to reproduce
them does not in any way imply that a deterministic way to reproduce
them does not exist. And, as I've said, you are essentially claiming
that a total of over 100 machines all have the same hardware problem,
that never ever occurs unless gcc is running. You know that isn't
true. You can, on the same machines, compile the same code with a
different compiler hundreds of times (which I did; I left it running on
two machines for a month) without a single problem. That is a software
problem.<br>
<br>
I make a living by determining whether problems are software or
hardware, and I very rarely make a mistake. I certainly never make a
mistake with this sort of overwhelming proof. You are just ignoring
the things that I've said that don't fit your theory. You will not
find a single case of this caused by hardware, because if the hardware
is really responsible, it is 100% impossible that every other program,
including programs that consume all the memory and most of the swap
(consume more total memory than the gcc runs) always work perfectly,
and only gcc causes this supposedly hardware problem to appear. 100
machines, of six different microprocessors, and six different types of
memory, all have a hardware problem that causes gcc, and only gcc, and
absolutely nothing other than gcc, to crash? These machines can
otherwise run for months at a time at very high load and the hardware
problem somehow never appears?<br>
<br>
Tell me that you've ever seen a hardware problem with these
characteristics. Furthermore, tell me that you've seen hardware
problems that never get worse, and are associated with a single
program. Find a single example of such a program that reveals a
hardware problem in processors made by three different companies. Or
an example of a program that reveals a hardware problem in a dozen
different motherboards. None of which exhibit even the slightest
problem unless gcc is running. None of which deadlock, freeze up,
never have kernel panics ... it just isn't possible, unless you ignore
the evidence.<br>
<br>
And the fact that one is deterministic implies that the others are
not? That has absolutely no basis in logic. I'm sure that with enough
work each and every one can be produce deterministically. Nobody has
paid me to do that, and nobody is going to. It's a lot cheaper to just
use a compiler that works. Even having to use Sun's compiler, with all
it's problems, is less expensive then trying to fix gcc, and Sun
charges about 3,000 each for the compiler.<br>
<br>
Hardware problems cause random problems, and any problem that occurs
with only one program is by definition not random. You are confusing
random with not yet explained. The two aren't remotely alike.<br>
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