# Talk:What a Monad is not

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+ | ==Nicolas Pouillard Comments== |
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I disagree with: |
I disagree with: |
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"So ordering is not in any way essential to what a monad is." |
"So ordering is not in any way essential to what a monad is." |
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Although I agree that the common issue is too mix monad and impurity, and the impurity question is only releated to IO. |
Although I agree that the common issue is too mix monad and impurity, and the impurity question is only releated to IO. |
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+ | == "Monads are not values" == |
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+ | Yes they are! But they are not of the type of their arguments. For instance "return 3" is a value that has (or can have) type "IO Int". But it is not a value of type Int. —[[User:Ashley Y|Ashley Y]] 23:44, 23 November 2009 (UTC) |
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+ | [Nicolas Pouillard]: The point was that the IO monad is not a value, of course there is values of type "IO Int". However the record/dictionary is a value and one could say that it is the monad. |

## Revision as of 15:07, 26 November 2009

## 1 Nicolas Pouillard Comments

I disagree with: "So ordering is not in any way essential to what a monad is."

There is commutative monads, great! Other than that the order is important. Moreover there is nothing wrong to see >>= as a sequencing operator.

I also disagree the "IO is impure" paragraph: Indeed only IO will trigger visible side effects, but this is only due to the common evaluation of IO primitives. Moreover I would say that only the runtime system is impure because it does reduce 'main :: IO ()', other than that we are just building a computation plan in a pure way.

Although I agree that the common issue is too mix monad and impurity, and the impurity question is only releated to IO.

## 2 "Monads are not values"

Yes they are! But they are not of the type of their arguments. For instance "return 3" is a value that has (or can have) type "IO Int". But it is not a value of type Int. —Ashley Y 23:44, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

[Nicolas Pouillard]: The point was that the IO monad is not a value, of course there is values of type "IO Int". However the record/dictionary is a value and one could say that it is the monad.