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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I believe that using <A
href="mailto:beginners@haskell.org">beginn<STRONG>ers</STRONG>@haskell.org</A> and
[Haskell-begin] in the subject line may confuse people. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>So, I would opt for [Haskell-beginners].
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Angelos</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>From: "Benjamin L.Russell" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:DekuDekuplex@Yahoo.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>DekuDekuplex@Yahoo.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>To: <</FONT><A
href="mailto:beginners@haskell.org"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>beginners@haskell.org</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 6:30 AM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Subject: Re: [Haskell-begin] Re: New
List</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><BR><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2>> On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 17:56:59 -0400, John Dorsey <</FONT><A
href="mailto:haskell@colquitt.org"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>haskell@colquitt.org</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>><BR>>
wrote:<BR>> <BR>>>I already filter on something else. I proposed
adding the prefix for<BR>>>two reasons: (1) I file all my
haskell-related lists into the same<BR>>>box, and the prefix is handy for
quickly telling which one I'm reading.<BR>>>This can make the difference
between, say, suggesting unsafePerformIO<BR>>>(in the cafe) or a brief
explanation of IO (on this list). And (2) for<BR>>>conistency with
[Haskell] and [Haskell-cafe].<BR>> <BR>> I see your point: You would
appreciate being able to use<BR>> "[Haskell-begin] unsafePerformIO" vs.
"[Haskell-cafe] unsafePerformIO"<BR>> to differentiate between a brief
explanation of IO on<BR>> Haskell-Beginners vs. suggesting unsafePerformIO on
Haskell-Cafe.<BR>> <BR>> That actually is a valid point, and could prove
useful at times.<BR>> <BR>> Apart from just consistency with "[Haskell]"
and "[Haskell-cafe]" in<BR>> the prefix for the subject lines of Haskell and
Haskell-Cafe, it seems<BR>> that a prefix would be useful in ensuring
consistency in having this<BR>> mailing list referred to as
"Haskell-Beginners," and not just<BR>> "Beginners," by new members.
Otherwise, the fact that the e-mail<BR>> address is </FONT><A
href="mailto:beginners@haskell.org"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>beginners@haskell.org</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>, and not<BR>>
</FONT><A href="mailto:haskell-beginners@haskell.org"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>haskell-beginners@haskell.org</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>, could
create confusion. New members<BR>> would probably start saying
"Haskell" vs. "Haskell-Cafe" vs.<BR>> "Beginners," leading to further
inconsistencies in the proper names.<BR>> Eventually, most people would just
start calling this list "Beginners"<BR>> because the name is shorter, and the
name "Haskell-Beginners" would<BR>> become mostly forgotten. However,
if the prefix referred to the<BR>> proper name of the list in every message,
this confusion could be<BR>> minimized.<BR>> <BR>>>It's not
important to me. Sounds like the majority are for no prefix.<BR>>
<BR>> Nonetheless, you had a valid point, and many users had stated that
as<BR>> long as the prefix was short, the presence or absence of the
prefix<BR>> did not really matter to them. Ideally, my personal
preference would<BR>> be to be completely consistent with [Haskell] and
[Haskell-cafe], and<BR>> change the prefix to [Haskell-beginners], but it
seems that then many<BR>> readers would believe this prefix to be too long
and make the subject<BR>> line hard to read.<BR>> <BR>> For the sake of
argument, let's experiment:<BR>> <BR>> [Haskell-begin]
unsafePerformIO<BR>> [Haskell-beginners] unsafePerformIO<BR>> <BR>>
Now, let's try a longer example:<BR>> <BR>> [Haskell-begin] beginners
mailing list should be beginner's choice<BR>> [Haskell-beginners] beginners
mailing list should be beginner's choice<BR>> <BR>> Right now, in my
Yahoo! Mail Haskell-Cafe folder, a typical truncated<BR>> long subject-line
message reads as follows:<BR>> <BR>> [Haskell-cafe] ghc 6.8.3 build error
with __DISCARD__ linking problem,<BR>> please hel<BR>> <BR>> That's 81
characters.<BR>> <BR>> Right now, the longest example that I can find of a
subject line in<BR>> Haskell-Beginners is the following:<BR>> <BR>>
[Haskell-begin] Re: [Haskell-cafe] Trouble with non-exhaustive<BR>>
patterns<BR>> <BR>> That's 71 characters, using "[Haskell-begin]."
If we changed<BR>> "[Haskell-begin]" to "[Haskell-beginners]," that would add
4<BR>> characters, increasing the length to 75. That's still below
81.<BR>> Here's a comparison:<BR>> <BR>> [Haskell-begin] Re:
[Haskell-cafe] Trouble with non-exhaustive<BR>> patterns<BR>>
[Haskell-beginners] Re: [Haskell-cafe] Trouble with non-exhaustive<BR>>
patterns<BR>> <BR>> Given that some mailing lists, such as plt-announce,
already get by<BR>> using prefixes of similar length (in their case,
"[PLT<BR>> announcement]," I think that in practice, after a few weeks,
most<BR>> readers would probably unconsciously just ignore the prefix and
read<BR>> the rest, and new readers would be able to read "[Haskell]"
vs.<BR>> "[Haskell-cafe]" vs. "[Haskell-beginners]" for consistency
(although<BR>> some users would probably complain at first).<BR>> <BR>>
Just for comparison, here are some examples of what is happening with<BR>>
the subject lines in plt-announce:<BR>> <BR>> [PLT announcement] PLT
Scheme v4.0<BR>> [PLT announcement] PLT Scheme v4.0.2<BR>> <BR>> Let's
compare what would happen with similar typical subject lines<BR>> with
"[Haskell-begin]" vs. "[Haskell-beginners]":<BR>> <BR>> [Haskell-begin]
Exercises for beginners and Natural Tansformations<BR>> [Haskell-beginners]
Exercises for beginners and Natural Tansformations<BR>> <BR>> What do you
think? Opinions, comment? You decide.<BR>> <BR>> -- Benjamin
L. Russell<BR>> <BR>>
_______________________________________________<BR>> Beginners mailing
list<BR>> </FONT><A href="mailto:Beginners@haskell.org"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Beginners@haskell.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>>
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