[Haskell-cafe] Poll & plea: State of GUI & graphics libraries in Haskell

Wed Oct 2 15:40:21 UTC 2013

Hi Paul. Is there a way to use GLFW with GUI elements other than OpenGL
display windows, e.g., text boxes and sliders?  -- Conal

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Paul Liu <ninegua at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks. I've just built GHC HEAD on Mac OS X Lion, and tested by
> installing libraries with --enable-shared and loading a GLFW program
> into GHCi. Using ghci -fno-ghci-sandbox, everything works great
> including closing and restarting GL window multiple times. Can't wait
> for the  official release of GHC 7.8!
>
> On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:09 PM, Carter Schonwald
> <carter.schonwald at gmail.com> wrote:
> > thats the linker bug.
> >
> > the glfw stuff has been tested on ghc HEAD / 7.7 by folks on
> #haskell-game
> > in recent memory. GHCI + foreign libs should work fine now (modulo thread
> > local storage related thing).
> >
> > the historical element doesn't matter any more.
> >
> > To the best of my knowledge, all such issues should be gone. Anyone who
> > cares about making sure GHCI+ gui libs play nice, PLEASE test with HEAD.
> >
> > the better this issue is properly tested (which i believe it has been),
> the
> > more we can actually prevent it from happening. This requires people to
> test
> > with HEAD GHCi now, rather than doing archaeology.
> >
> > anyone who cares, please play with GHCI in HEAD. If your lib doesn't work
> > with ghci, please report a bug. It would be a new bug because it wont' be
> > the previous reasons it hasnt' worked.
> >
> >
> > tl;dr to the best of my knowledge this issue is resolved in HEAD. Test
> HEAD.
> > Help us make sure it stays resolved by testing HEAD.
> >
> > thanks
> > -Carter
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 1:20 PM, Paul Liu <ninegua at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I reported a problem with statically linked GLFW library on Mac OS X
> >> Lion in this thread:
> >>
> >> http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2012-January/097355.html
> >>
> >> I do not know why this is broken on Mac OS X Lion, but not on Linux or
> >> Windows. There was an EnableGUI hack for GHC 7.2 (and previous
> >> versions) and OS X version before Lion, but it no longer works. So I'm
> >> not sure if it is OS X Lion, or GLFW, or GHC, or a combination of them
> >> that caused this problem.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Paul Liu
> >>
> >> On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 7:04 AM, Carter Schonwald
> >> <carter.schonwald at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > Hey simon, the two issues that have recurrently bit ghci interaction
> >> > with
> >> > foreign GUI libs are
> >> > 1) the ghci linker.  This is fixed in head by now having ghci use the
> >> > system
> >> > linker
> >> > 2) some GUI libs require thread local state, and ghci has a flag for
> >> > that
> >> > 3)  I'm not aware of anyone reporting newly broken libs wrt GUI
> bindings
> >> > when 7.6 rolled out.  The only fix that's relevant to 7.8 is the
> >> > dylinker
> >> > bit, but that would have been a problem historically too.
> >> >
> >> > I believe a number of folks in #haskell-game have recently tested
> point
> >> > one.
> >> > (Though I should ask to double check)
> >> >
> >> > At the very least, I'm not aware of hearing of such a 7.6 specific
> ghci
> >> > breakage before.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Tuesday, October 1, 2013, Simon Peyton-Jones wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Dear GHC devs
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> See below (in red).  I do not know the details of this, but it sounds
> >> >> like
> >> >> a pretty serious problem, and it used to work.  Is whatever-it-is
> >> >> confirmed
> >> >> fixed in 7.8?  Do we have a test that?ll trip if it breaks again?
>  (I?m
> >> >> guessing that the latter might be hard.)
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Simon
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: Haskell-Cafe [mailto:haskell-cafe-bounces at haskell.org] On
> Behalf
> >> >> Of
> >> >> Paul Liu
> >> >> Sent: 30 September 2013 07:18
> >> >> To: Conal Elliott
> >> >> Cc: Haskell Cafe
> >> >> Subject: Re: [Haskell-cafe] Poll & plea: State of GUI & graphics
> >> >> libraries
> >> >> in Haskell
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Hi Conal,
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> I wasn't able to make it to last Saturday's FARM track, but I think
> >> >>
> >> >> there was a good chance that Paul would have demonstrated his
> Euterpea
> >> >>
> >> >> music library, which includes a GUI interface (called MUI) written on
> >> >>
> >> >> top of GLFW. I wrote its initial implementation (around 2009?) with a
> >> >>
> >> >> monadic interface that let you wire together UI components with
> >> >>
> >> >> signals (I believe Dan later wrote an arrow interface, but I could be
> >> >>
> >> >> wrong). It was actually inspired by the ideas behind your Phooey UI
> >> >>
> >> >> library. It should be very easy to extract this part out as a
> >> >>
> >> >> standalone package if there is enough interest.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> The only issue with it (and all other UI libraries) is that it
> doesn't
> >> >>
> >> >> play nicely in GHCi. It used to work pretty well with GHC 7.2 and 7.4
> >> >>
> >> >> on almost all platforms (Mac needs an extra hack), but GHC 7.6 broke
> >> >>
> >> >> Mac (and perhaps Windows too). GHC 7.8 supposedly should fix this
> >> >>
> >> >> problem.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> BTW, as also the author of the GLFW library on HackageDB, I've done
> >> >>
> >> >> barely minimal to keep this Haskell binding afloat. I'm actually
> >> >>
> >> >> leaning towards GLFW-b library, which is better maintained, and
> >> >>
> >> >> provides similar binding for GLFW C library but with a saner
> interface
> >> >>
> >> >> (no dependency on the OpenGL library, for example). If you don't need
> >> >>
> >> >> the two extra things that GLFW does (choice of either dynamic or
> >> >>
> >> >> static linking to GLFW C, and an embedded bitmap font), I suggest you
> >> >>
> >> >> try out GLFW-b if you are only looking for a think graphics layer
> with
> >> >>
> >> >> input+window+OpenGL.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> The only thing keeping GLFW-b from becoming a good foundation for a
> >> >>
> >> >> pure Haskell UI lib is IMHO the lack of a light-weight,
> >> >>
> >> >> cross-platform, and full-featured font rendering solution. I believe
> >> >>
> >> >> many other libraries (including Diagram) are having the same problem.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 8:32 PM, Conal Elliott <conal at conal.net>
> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > I'm polling to see whether there are will and expertise to reboot
> >> >> > graphics
> >> >>
> >> >> > and GUIs work in Haskell. I miss working on functional graphics and
> >> >> > GUIs
> >> >> > in
> >> >>
> >> >> > Haskell, as I've been blocked for several years (eight?) due to the
> >> >> > absence
> >> >>
> >> >> > of low-level foundation libraries having the following properties:
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> > * cross-platform,
> >> >>
> >> >> > * easily buildable,
> >> >>
> >> >> > * GHCi-friendly, and
> >> >>
> >> >> > * OpenGL-compatible.
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> > The last several times I tried Gtk2hs, I was unable to compile it
> on
> >> >> > my
> >> >> > Mac.
> >> >>
> >> >> > Years ago when I was able to compile, the GUIs looked and
> interacted
> >> >> > like a
> >> >>
> >> >> > Linux app, which made them awkward and upleasant to use. wxHaskell
> >> >> > (whose
> >> >>
> >> >> > API and visual appearance I prefered) has for years been
> incompatible
> >> >> > with
> >> >>
> >> >> > GHCi, in that the second time I open a top-level window, the host
> >> >> > process
> >> >>
> >> >> > (GHCi) dies abruptly. Since my GUI & graphics programs are often
> >> >> > one-liners,
> >> >>
> >> >> > and I tend to experiment a lot, using a full compilation greatly
> >> >> > thwarts
> >> >> > my
> >> >>
> >> >> > flow. For many years, I've thought that the situation would
> >> >> > eventually
> >> >>
> >> >> > improve, since I'm far from the only person who wants GUIs or
> >> >> > graphics
> >> >> > from
> >> >>
> >> >> > Haskell.
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> > About three years ago, I built a modern replacement of my old Pan
> and
> >> >>
> >> >> > V
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > ghc-devs mailing list
> >> > ghc-devs at haskell.org
> >> > http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/ghc-devs
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Regards,
> >> Paul Liu
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Paul Liu
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>
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