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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Advice, yes; leadership, no.&nbsp; [&#8220;guidance&#8221; is ambiguous between
those two!]<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Simon<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> haskell-cafe-bounces@haskell.org
[mailto:haskell-cafe-bounces@haskell.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>John A. De Goes<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 23 June 2009 15:24<br>
<b>To:</b> Simon Peyton-Jones; Haskell Cafe<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell on the iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

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<div>

<p class=MsoNormal>How about setting up some sort of &quot;Summer of
Code&quot;-type project, where companies can pledge dollars toward a certain
goal, which will cover the cost of the work?<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal>Is there someone at GHC HQ who could provide guidance to a
sponsored developer working on getting additional targets into HEAD?<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>John A. De Goes<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>N-Brain, Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>The Evolution of Collaboration<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'><a href="http://www.n-brain.net">http://www.n-brain.net</a> &nbsp;
&nbsp;| &nbsp; &nbsp;877-376-2724 x 101<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal>On Jun 23, 2009, at 8:16 AM, Simon Peyton-Jones wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Good news about the iPhone port!&nbsp;</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>There seems to be quite a bit more
interest now in supporting platforms other than win/*nix on x86 these days*.
&nbsp;Maybe now there will be sufficient motivation to make the fundamental
changes required. Caveat: I have absolutely no idea of the scope or complexity
of said changes.&nbsp; I will look through the LambdaVM code (and iPwn when
available)&nbsp; to get an idea.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>There is definitely an opportunity here for someone to make an
impact.&nbsp; There is no reason in principle why Haskell can&#8217;t run on a JVM or
.net or other platform.&nbsp; But it&#8217;s not just a simple matter of absorbing
some patch or other.&nbsp; Here&#8217;s a summary I wrote a little while ago:</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a
href="http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/GHC:FAQ#Why_isn.27t_GHC_available_for_.NET_or_on_the_JVM.3F">http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/GHC:FAQ#Why_isn.27t_GHC_available_for_.NET_or_on_the_JVM.3F</a></span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The short summary is:</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-18.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'>&middot;</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span
class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>There is interesting design
work to do; and then interesting engineering work to make it a reality.&nbsp;</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-18.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'>&middot;</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span
class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>We (at GHC HQ) would love to
see that happen, but are not likely to drive it.&nbsp;</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-18.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'>&middot;</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span
class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If someone, or a small group,
wanted to take up the cudgels and work on it, we&#8217;d be happy to advise.&nbsp;</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-18.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'>&middot;</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span
class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>We&#8217;d certainly consider
folding the results into the HEAD, provided the author(s) are willing to
maintain it, and we feel that the result is comprehensible and maintainable.</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-18.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'>&middot;</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span
class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>But another viable route
might well be to use the GHC API, which means that the result wouldn&#8217;t be part
of GHC at all, just a client of the API.&nbsp; That would make it much easier
to distribute upgrades etc, just as a Cabal package.</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Simon</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span
class=apple-converted-space><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>&nbsp;</span></span><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black'><a href="mailto:haskell-cafe-bounces@haskell.org">haskell-cafe-bounces@haskell.org</a><span
class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span>[<a
href="mailto:haskell-cafe-bounces@haskell.org">mailto:haskell-cafe-bounces@haskell.org</a>]<span
class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><b>On Behalf Of<span
class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span></b>Rick R<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span>23 June 2009 14:53<br>
<b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span>Haskell Cafe<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span>Re:
[Haskell-cafe] Haskell on the iPhone</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='color:black'>There
seems to be quite a bit more interest now in supporting platforms other than
win/*nix on x86 these days*.<span class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><br>
Maybe now there will be sufficient motivation to make the fundamental changes
required. Caveat: I have absolutely no idea of the scope or complexity of said
changes.&nbsp; I will look through the LambdaVM code (and iPwn when
available)&nbsp; to get an idea.<span class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><br>
<br>
Perhaps we can devote a section of Haskell Wiki to generalizing Haskell for
multiple targets?<span class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><br>
<br>
The industry has been clamoring for a unified solution to all of the mobile
platforms out there. If Haskell can provide that, it would be a huge win for
its popularity.<br>
<br>
*&nbsp; Thanks primarily to the iPhone and Android systems. I think currently
iPhone is swaying the most votes but Android is due to be on a dozen phones and
possibly even a netbook.&nbsp; (I have heard two announcements and one
cancellation with regards to the netbooks).&nbsp;&nbsp;<span
class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:34 AM,
John A. De Goes &lt;<a href="mailto:john@n-brain.net">john@n-brain.net</a>&gt;
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>I have strong interest in Haskell
on the JVM. Not for Android, however.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Seems like every time this topic
comes up, the consensus is that it's not easy to support new targets with GHC,
but that &quot;work is underway&quot; to make such developments easier.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>Regards,</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>&nbsp;</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>John A. De Goes</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>N-Brain, Inc.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>The Evolution of Collaboration</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>&nbsp;</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'><a href="http://www.n-brain.net" target="_blank">http://www.n-brain.net</a><span
class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span>&nbsp; &nbsp;| &nbsp;
&nbsp;877-376-2724 x 101</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>On Jun 22, 2009, at 11:23 PM, Ryan
Trinkle wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='color:black'>Rick,<br>
<br>
I know some work has been done on JVM - iirc, Don Stewart did some work back in
the day,<span class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><cite><a
href="http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/%7Epls/thesis/dons-thesis.ps.gz"
target="_blank">www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~pls/thesis/dons-thesis.ps.gz</a></cite>,
but I'm not sure how comprehensive it is.<br>
<br>
Is anyone else interested in JVM-based Haskell targets?<br>
<br>
<br>
Ryan<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 20:42,
Rick R &lt;<a href="mailto:rick.richardson@gmail.com" target="_blank">rick.richardson@gmail.com</a>&gt;
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>This is definitely good news!<span
class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><br>
<br>
So...&nbsp; who's doing the Android/JVM target?&nbsp; ;)<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='color:black'><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 7:37 PM,
Daniel Peebles &lt;<a href="mailto:pumpkingod@gmail.com" target="_blank">pumpkingod@gmail.com</a>&gt;
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>How exciting! I fully support the
creation of a new mailing list about<br>
iphone+haskell :)<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><br>
On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 6:30 PM, Ryan Trinkle&lt;<a
href="mailto:ryant5000@gmail.com" target="_blank">ryant5000@gmail.com</a>&gt;
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>&gt; Dear Haskellers,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Recently, there's been a groundswell of activity in the Haskell community<br>
&gt; regarding the Haskell's use in developing iPhone games.&nbsp; The iPhone
is a<br>
&gt; powerful, innovative platform (with a great monetization scheme, to boot),<br>
&gt; and it's not surprising that many of us would want to develop apps for it
in<br>
&gt; our favorite language.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I am proud to announce today that my company, iPwn Studios Inc., is<br>
&gt; currently preparing to release an open source patch to GHC that allows it
to<br>
&gt; output binaries for iPhone OS.&nbsp; The patch will be released under a
BSD<br>
&gt; license as soon as possible and hopefully integrated into the GHC
main-line<br>
&gt; in the near future.&nbsp; As the first (to my knowledge) Haskell-based
game<br>
&gt; studio, iPwn Studios is committed to giving back to the Haskell community<br>
&gt; through open source - contributing to a rising tide that lifts us all.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I would like to take this opportunity to propose the creation of a<br>
&gt; haskell-iphone mailing list, so that all Haskellers working with the
iPhone<br>
&gt; - whether for profit or for pleasure - can come together to make Haskell a<br>
&gt; force to be reckoned with in the burgeoning iPhone App marketplace.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Best wishes,<br>
&gt; Ryan Trinkle<br>
&gt; President, iPwn Studios Inc.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; P.S.: If you wish to be involved in the preparation of the GHC patch or in<br>
&gt; the creation of iPwn Studios' first game, don't hesitate to contact me by<br>
&gt; email (<a href="mailto:ryant5000@gmail.com" target="_blank">ryant5000@gmail.com</a>),
AIM (RyanT5000), or IRC (RyanT5000 on<br>
&gt;<span class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><a
href="http://irc.freenode.net" target="_blank">irc.freenode.net</a>).<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>&gt;
_______________________________________________<br>
&gt; Haskell-Cafe mailing list<br>
&gt;<span class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><a
href="mailto:Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org" target="_blank">Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org</a><br>
&gt;<span class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><a
href="http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe" target="_blank">http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Haskell-Cafe mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org" target="_blank">Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org</a><br>
<a href="http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe" target="_blank">http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><br>
<br clear=all>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='color:#888888'>--<span
class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><br>
&quot;The greatest obstacle to discovering the shape of the earth, the
continents, and the oceans was not ignorance but the illusion of
knowledge.&quot;<span class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><br>
- Daniel J. Boorstin<br>
<br>
</span><span style='color:black'><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Haskell-Cafe mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org" target="_blank">Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org</a><br>
<a href="http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe" target="_blank">http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Haskell-Cafe mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org" target="_blank">Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org</a><br>
<a href="http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe" target="_blank">http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='color:black'><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Haskell-Cafe mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org">Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org</a><br>
<a href="http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe" target="_blank">http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='color:black'><br>
<br clear=all>
<br>
--<span class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><br>
&quot;The greatest obstacle to discovering the shape of the earth, the
continents, and the oceans was not ignorance but the illusion of
knowledge.&quot;<span class=apple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><br>
- Daniel J. Boorstin<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>
Haskell-Cafe mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org">Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org</a><br>
<a href="http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe">http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

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