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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Advice, yes; leadership, no. [“guidance” is ambiguous between
those two!]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Simon<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> haskell-cafe-bounces@haskell.org
[mailto:haskell-cafe-bounces@haskell.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>John A. De Goes<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 23 June 2009 15:24<br>
<b>To:</b> Simon Peyton-Jones; Haskell Cafe<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell on the iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>How about setting up some sort of "Summer of
Code"-type project, where companies can pledge dollars toward a certain
goal, which will cover the cost of the work?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Is there someone at GHC HQ who could provide guidance to a
sponsored developer working on getting additional targets into HEAD?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
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<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>John A. De Goes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>N-Brain, Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>The Evolution of Collaboration<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'><a href="http://www.n-brain.net">http://www.n-brain.net</a>
| 877-376-2724 x 101<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Jun 23, 2009, at 8:16 AM, Simon Peyton-Jones wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Good news about the iPhone port! </span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:36.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>There seems to be quite a bit more
interest now in supporting platforms other than win/*nix on x86 these days*.
Maybe now there will be sufficient motivation to make the fundamental
changes required. Caveat: I have absolutely no idea of the scope or complexity
of said changes. I will look through the LambdaVM code (and iPwn when
available) to get an idea.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>There is definitely an opportunity here for someone to make an
impact. There is no reason in principle why Haskell can’t run on a JVM or
.net or other platform. But it’s not just a simple matter of absorbing
some patch or other. Here’s a summary I wrote a little while ago:</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a
href="http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/GHC:FAQ#Why_isn.27t_GHC_available_for_.NET_or_on_the_JVM.3F">http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/GHC:FAQ#Why_isn.27t_GHC_available_for_.NET_or_on_the_JVM.3F</a></span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The short summary is:</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:36.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-18.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'>·</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;
color:#1F497D'> <span
class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>There is interesting design
work to do; and then interesting engineering work to make it a reality. </span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:36.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-18.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'>·</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;
color:#1F497D'> <span
class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>We (at GHC HQ) would love to
see that happen, but are not likely to drive it. </span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:36.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-18.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'>·</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;
color:#1F497D'> <span
class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If someone, or a small group,
wanted to take up the cudgels and work on it, we’d be happy to advise. </span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:36.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-18.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'>·</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;
color:#1F497D'> <span
class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>We’d certainly consider
folding the results into the HEAD, provided the author(s) are willing to
maintain it, and we feel that the result is comprehensible and maintainable.</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:36.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-18.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'>·</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;
color:#1F497D'> <span
class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>But another viable route
might well be to use the GHC API, which means that the result wouldn’t be part
of GHC at all, just a client of the API. That would make it much easier
to distribute upgrades etc, just as a Cabal package.</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Simon</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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border-width:initial;border-color:initial'>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span
class=apple-converted-space><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> </span></span><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black'><a href="mailto:haskell-cafe-bounces@haskell.org">haskell-cafe-bounces@haskell.org</a><span
class=apple-converted-space> </span>[<a
href="mailto:haskell-cafe-bounces@haskell.org">mailto:haskell-cafe-bounces@haskell.org</a>]<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>Rick R<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>23 June 2009 14:53<br>
<b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Haskell Cafe<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re:
[Haskell-cafe] Haskell on the iPhone</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='color:black'>There
seems to be quite a bit more interest now in supporting platforms other than
win/*nix on x86 these days*.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>
Maybe now there will be sufficient motivation to make the fundamental changes
required. Caveat: I have absolutely no idea of the scope or complexity of said
changes. I will look through the LambdaVM code (and iPwn when
available) to get an idea.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>
<br>
Perhaps we can devote a section of Haskell Wiki to generalizing Haskell for
multiple targets?<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>
<br>
The industry has been clamoring for a unified solution to all of the mobile
platforms out there. If Haskell can provide that, it would be a huge win for
its popularity.<br>
<br>
* Thanks primarily to the iPhone and Android systems. I think currently
iPhone is swaying the most votes but Android is due to be on a dozen phones and
possibly even a netbook. (I have heard two announcements and one
cancellation with regards to the netbooks). <span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:34 AM,
John A. De Goes <<a href="mailto:john@n-brain.net">john@n-brain.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>I have strong interest in Haskell
on the JVM. Not for Android, however.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Seems like every time this topic
comes up, the consensus is that it's not easy to support new targets with GHC,
but that "work is underway" to make such developments easier.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>Regards,</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>John A. De Goes</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>N-Brain, Inc.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>The Evolution of Collaboration</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'><a href="http://www.n-brain.net" target="_blank">http://www.n-brain.net</a><span
class=apple-converted-space> </span> |
877-376-2724 x 101</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>On Jun 22, 2009, at 11:23 PM, Ryan
Trinkle wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='color:black'>Rick,<br>
<br>
I know some work has been done on JVM - iirc, Don Stewart did some work back in
the day,<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><cite><a
href="http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/%7Epls/thesis/dons-thesis.ps.gz"
target="_blank">www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~pls/thesis/dons-thesis.ps.gz</a></cite>,
but I'm not sure how comprehensive it is.<br>
<br>
Is anyone else interested in JVM-based Haskell targets?<br>
<br>
<br>
Ryan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 20:42,
Rick R <<a href="mailto:rick.richardson@gmail.com" target="_blank">rick.richardson@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>This is definitely good news!<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>
<br>
So... who's doing the Android/JVM target? ;)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='color:black'><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 7:37 PM,
Daniel Peebles <<a href="mailto:pumpkingod@gmail.com" target="_blank">pumpkingod@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>How exciting! I fully support the
creation of a new mailing list about<br>
iphone+haskell :)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 6:30 PM, Ryan Trinkle<<a
href="mailto:ryant5000@gmail.com" target="_blank">ryant5000@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>> Dear Haskellers,<br>
><br>
> Recently, there's been a groundswell of activity in the Haskell community<br>
> regarding the Haskell's use in developing iPhone games. The iPhone
is a<br>
> powerful, innovative platform (with a great monetization scheme, to boot),<br>
> and it's not surprising that many of us would want to develop apps for it
in<br>
> our favorite language.<br>
><br>
> I am proud to announce today that my company, iPwn Studios Inc., is<br>
> currently preparing to release an open source patch to GHC that allows it
to<br>
> output binaries for iPhone OS. The patch will be released under a
BSD<br>
> license as soon as possible and hopefully integrated into the GHC
main-line<br>
> in the near future. As the first (to my knowledge) Haskell-based
game<br>
> studio, iPwn Studios is committed to giving back to the Haskell community<br>
> through open source - contributing to a rising tide that lifts us all.<br>
><br>
> I would like to take this opportunity to propose the creation of a<br>
> haskell-iphone mailing list, so that all Haskellers working with the
iPhone<br>
> - whether for profit or for pleasure - can come together to make Haskell a<br>
> force to be reckoned with in the burgeoning iPhone App marketplace.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Best wishes,<br>
> Ryan Trinkle<br>
> President, iPwn Studios Inc.<br>
><br>
> P.S.: If you wish to be involved in the preparation of the GHC patch or in<br>
> the creation of iPwn Studios' first game, don't hesitate to contact me by<br>
> email (<a href="mailto:ryant5000@gmail.com" target="_blank">ryant5000@gmail.com</a>),
AIM (RyanT5000), or IRC (RyanT5000 on<br>
><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a
href="http://irc.freenode.net" target="_blank">irc.freenode.net</a>).<br>
><br>
><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>>
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<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='color:#888888'>--<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>
"The greatest obstacle to discovering the shape of the earth, the
continents, and the oceans was not ignorance but the illusion of
knowledge."<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>
- Daniel J. Boorstin<br>
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</span><span style='color:black'><br>
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_______________________________________________<br>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='color:black'><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='color:black'><br>
<br clear=all>
<br>
--<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>
"The greatest obstacle to discovering the shape of the earth, the
continents, and the oceans was not ignorance but the illusion of
knowledge."<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>
- Daniel J. Boorstin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>
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