<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><br></div><div>I think they made a mistake choosing a syntax so close to Haskell:</div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>1. It's close enough to Haskell to attract Haskellers;</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>2. It's far enough away from Haskell to push Haskellers away;</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>3. It's not the language one would design if one were prioritizing easy interop with Java in a modern lazy, functional language.</div><div><br></div><div>If CAL were 100% Haskell 98 + extensions, it would be a success (Haskell + all Java libraries, trivial cross-platform library development, Haskell on Android & AppEngine, etc.). If it were nothing like Haskell, but had the features of Haskell plus strong, seamless, and easy Java interop, then it would be a success. Having neither, I'm not surprised it has no community and development has ceased.</div><br><div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div>Regards,</div><div><br></div><div>John A. De Goes</div><div>N-Brain, Inc.</div><div>The Evolution of Collaboration</div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://www.n-brain.net">http://www.n-brain.net</a> | 877-376-2724 x 101</div></div></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></span>
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<br><div><div>On Sep 28, 2009, at 9:59 AM, Peter Verswyvelen wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">That's a really shame. Any idea why?<div><div><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 3:02 PM, John A. De Goes <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:john@n-brain.net">john@n-brain.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div><br></div><div>CAL is interesting, but unfortunately dead, and has no community.</div>
<div class="im"><br><div>
<span style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">
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<span style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">
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<div><div>Regards,</div><div><br></div><div>John A. De Goes</div><div>N-Brain, Inc.</div><div>The Evolution of Collaboration</div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://www.n-brain.net/" target="_blank">http://www.n-brain.net</a> | 877-376-2724 x 101</div>
</div></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></span>
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<br></div><div><div></div><div class="h5"><div><div>On Sep 27, 2009, at 3:38 PM, Peter Verswyvelen wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite">That's not really true. Just use CAL from the Open Quark framework... It's almost Haskell 98, with some extras, and compiles to fast JVM code.<div>
<div><div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://openquark.org/Open_Quark/Welcome.html" target="_blank">http://openquark.org/Open_Quark/Welcome.html</a></div>
<div><br></div><div><a href="http://openquark.org/Open_Quark/Welcome.html" target="_blank"></a>They even seem to do all kinds of advanced optimizations - like converting tail calls to loops - to get good Java performance.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>And they have a better record system, a graphical environment to learn it, etc.</div><div><br></div><div>So I think CAL should be in the list, and since it's basically Haskell...</div><div><br></div><div><div><div class="gmail_quote">
On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 6:36 PM, John A. De Goes <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:john@n-brain.net" target="_blank">john@n-brain.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
I'm not sure what the point of your series is. No one who is using Java now commercially can move to Haskell because Haskell doesn't run on the JVM.<br>
<br>
It makes sense to discuss Clojure, Groovy, JRuby, Scala, Fan, etc., as "next Java's", because they all run on the JVM and have seamless interop with Java. Haskell is not in this category. It's stuck in a different world, wholly inaccessible to the masses.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
John A. De Goes<br>
N-Brain, Inc.<br>
The Evolution of Collaboration<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.n-brain.net/" target="_blank">http://www.n-brain.net</a> | 877-376-2724 x 101<div><div></div><div><br>
<br>
On Sep 27, 2009, at 10:16 AM, Curt Sampson wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
No, it's not quite what it sounds like. :-)<br>
<br>
Stuart Halloway recently posted a series of blog entries entitled<br>
"Java.next"[1], discussing the benefits of four other languages that<br>
compile to JVM bytecode and interoperate with Java: Clojure, Groovy,<br>
JRuby, and Scala. I thought I'd put my oar in and write a parallel<br>
series comparing Haskell to these. I've finished a draft of the first<br>
posting, started on the third, and made a couple of notes on the second<br>
and fourth, and I thought I'd post the drafts[2] and solicit comments<br>
here. If you have time to read and comment, I'd greatly appreciate the<br>
help; feel free either to e-mail me privately or post here. Also feel<br>
free to forward this to anybody else you feel might be interested in<br>
commenting.<br>
<br>
I'll probably be posting these about one per week, starting some time<br>
next week.<br>
<br>
[1]: <a href="http://blog.thinkrelevance.com/2008/9/24/java-next-overview" target="_blank">http://blog.thinkrelevance.com/2008/9/24/java-next-overview</a><br>
[2]: <a href="http://www.starling-software.com/en/blog/drafts/2009/09/27.succ-java-summary.html" target="_blank">http://www.starling-software.com/en/blog/drafts/2009/09/27.succ-java-summary.html</a><br>
<br>
cjs<br>
-- <br>
Curt Sampson <<a href="mailto:cjs@starling-software.com" target="_blank">cjs@starling-software.com</a>> +81 90 7737 2974<br>
Functional programming in all senses of the word:<br>
<a href="http://www.starling-software.com/" target="_blank">http://www.starling-software.com</a><br>
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