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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">I'd argue that it's not. Haskell hasn't had a release in years, and I think it's time to put a little pressure on the community.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The question is: who is “the community”?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">It’s fairly clear that the Haskell Prime process itself is languishing. The last message about the development process that I can find is
<a href="http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-prime/2011-January/003335.html">
this one from Malcolm Wallace</a>, in January 2011.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">But please don’t blame Malcolm or
<a href="http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/haskell-prime/wiki/Committee">the committee</a>. Developing new, well-specified changes to Haskell will only happen if there is a vigorous eco-system of folk who are prepared to devote the love and time to do it. There
are plenty of people (myself among them) who would be delighted if there was a series of well-specified updates to the Haskell standard; but it is harder to assemble a group that is willing to move that process forward.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Why not? I don’t think it’s laziness or selfishness; just look at how helpful people are on the mailing list. Rather, I am guessing that it’s a subconscious
assessment of cost/benefit. The cost is certainly significant, and (unlike a quick email response on Haskell Cafe) takes place over months.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The benefit, for an individual, is harder to articulate. GHC defines a de-facto standard, simply by existing, and for many practical purposes that is good
enough. However, GHC is (quite consciously) exploring stuff that may or may not ultimately turn out to be a good idea: it’s a laboratory, not an every-detail-thought-out product. [Though of course we try hard to be good enough for production use.] So there
is real merit in having a group, not too closely coupled to GHC, that picks off the best ideas and embodies them in a language standard. But if for any one individual, GHC is “good enough”, then the benefits of a language standard may seem distant and diffuse.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I don’t have a solution to this particular conundrum. As many of you will remember, the
<a href="http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/haskell-prime/wiki/Process">Haskell Prime process</a> was itself developed in response to a sense that making a “big iteration” of the language was so large a task that no one felt able to even begin it. Hence the deliberately
more incremental nature of Haskell Prime; but even this lighter-weight process is rather stuck.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I’m sure that any solution will involve (as it did in earlier stages) motivated individuals who are willing to take up leadership roles in developing Haskell’s
language definition. I’m copying this to the main Haskell list, in the hope of attracting volunteers!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Simon<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> haskell-prime-bounces@haskell.org [mailto:haskell-prime-bounces@haskell.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Nate Soares<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 27 November 2012 22:44<br>
<b>To:</b> Ben Millwood<br>
<b>Cc:</b> haskell-prime@haskell.org Prime<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Status of Haskell'?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">> it might be wise to see what GHC decides to do on that front, first,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I'd argue that it's not. Haskell hasn't had a release in years, and I think it's time to put a little pressure on the community.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 2:15 PM, Ben Millwood <<a href="mailto:haskell@benmachine.co.uk" target="_blank">haskell@benmachine.co.uk</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 5:35 PM, Ian Lynagh <<a href="mailto:igloo@earth.li">igloo@earth.li</a>> wrote:<br>
> [...] adding DeriveDataTypeable<br>
> hopefully wouldn't be too controversial [...]<br>
<br>
This is a little tricky since the Data class itself makes (essential,<br>
I think) use of Rank2Types. Typeable ought to be fine, but it might be<br>
wise to see what GHC decides to do on that front, first, e.g. whether<br>
it's going to autoderive all instances or forbid user instances or<br>
anything else similarly bold.<o:p></o:p></p>
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