The future of Haskell discussion
Bill Halchin
bhalchin@hotmail.com
Sun, 16 Sep 2001 00:24:40
<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<P>Jeff has hit the nail on the head .. thanks Jeff. You said eloquently what I was hinting at</P>
<P>or saying very implicit (because I didn't know how to say it eloquently). The "Haskell</P>
<P>library" seems to be contributions by individuals (who should be commended!!), but as</P>
<P>an "industrial" programmer who writes in imperative languages everyday (and sees</P>
<P>them as many times getting in the way, e.g. C++, and not modeling a particular</P>
<P>problem very elegantly!), with Haskell I would like to see a library API part of the</P>
<P>Haskell Report, i.e. a nice list of type signatures by topic, e.g. numeric. (maybe this</P>
<P>is already the situation ... I unfortunately have not had a lot of chance to write </P>
<P>Haskel code even though I like FPL's and Haskell in particular). The haskell library API</P>
<P>should be part of the Haskell standard just as the standard C library is part of the </P>
<P>ANSI C standard!</P>
<P>Regards, Bill Halchin</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: Jeffrey Palmer <JEFF@CURIOUSNETWORKS.COM>
<DIV></DIV>>To: haskell@haskell.org
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: The future of Haskell discussion
<DIV></DIV>>Date: 14 Sep 2001 17:06:49 -0500
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>On Fri, 2001-09-14 at 15:12, Mark Carroll wrote:
<DIV></DIV>> > On Fri, 14 Sep 2001, Bill Halchin wrote:
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > > Probably this question has been brought before. Besides the Preludes,
<DIV></DIV>> > > why doesn't
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>> > > Haskell have libraries like Java, Squeak (Smalltalk). I found this:
<DIV></DIV>> > (snip)
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > I'm puzzled - it does! - see http://www.haskell.org/libraries/ for some of
<DIV></DIV>> > them.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>I think the question is more along the lines of "Why doesn't Haskell
<DIV></DIV>>come bundled with complete, useful and _supported_ libraries?"
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>For example, the Edison home page describes the library in this way:
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>"in its current state, the library is mostly a framework. That is, I
<DIV></DIV>>provide signatures, but not yet very many implementations..."
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>This is not the type of thing that your standard software engineer wants
<DIV></DIV>>to hear. Professional software developers need to be highly productive,
<DIV></DIV>>and are often unwilling to invest time learning libraries that aren't
<DIV></DIV>>part of the core language environment. However you feel about the
<DIV></DIV>>design of the Java Collections API, at least it's a supported part of
<DIV></DIV>>the language. Developers feel comfortable that any time spent learning
<DIV></DIV>>the how to use these APIs is worthwhile.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>I felt this very recently when looking for a quality GUI framework for
<DIV></DIV>>Haskell. There appear to be many(!) libraries available, and all seem
<DIV></DIV>>to be in various states of completion. Personally, I would like to see
<DIV></DIV>>someone complete the port of the Clean library that was attempted, as
<DIV></DIV>>that library seems to have been pretty battle-tested, and there are lots
<DIV></DIV>>of good, real-world examples.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>That, I suppose, is the key point. Whatever libraries are chosen for
<DIV></DIV>>final inclusion in the Haskell environment, they should be treated as
<DIV></DIV>>integral to the language experience. Extensive documentation and
<DIV></DIV>>examples should exist, perhaps of book length (I really liked Hudak's
<DIV></DIV>>text for this reason, and only wish that it had been written with the
<DIV></DIV>>"standard" Haskell GUI libs). Finally, any libraries should be beaten
<DIV></DIV>>upon to such an extent that there is a solid guarantee that they are
<DIV></DIV>>"safe" for production use.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Thoughts?
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> - j
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>--
<DIV></DIV>>Jeffrey Palmer
<DIV></DIV>>Curious Networks, Inc.
<DIV></DIV>>http://www.curiousnetworks.com
<DIV></DIV>>e: jeff@curiousnetworks.com
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>_______________________________________________
<DIV></DIV>>Haskell mailing list
<DIV></DIV>>Haskell@haskell.org
<DIV></DIV>>http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_itl_EN.asp'>http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></html>