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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>This sort of disagreement means that nothing gets done.
After my<br>
experience with the wiki page, I don't believe anything will get done<br>
until one of the core ghc developers makes some arbitrary decisions<br>
and implements whatever they want to, which will then eventually<br>
become part of the standard by default.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><br>
This is the sort of situation where a "benign dictator" is needed. I
have no strong feelings about which of all of these (all very good) proposals
get implemented, but I do have a strong opinion that the lack of
"proper" records is hurting Haskell quite a bit. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>Any of them will do, just get it in there! I'm assuming that
Simon {PJ,M} et al. won't make an obviously terrible choice, and GHC seems to
be the de facto standard anyway, so if they just implemented something in GHC
that would be good enough for me, and a shoe-in for a future standard.<span
style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Since you are taking my name in vain, I had better respond!
I wish I felt as confident of my good taste as you do. My last attempt to
implement records (with Umut Acar, more or less the design in the “proposal
for records” paper) involved rather significant changes to the type
checker, and I was reluctant to commit to them without stronger evidence that
it was a good design. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I’m not so despondent about the Wiki page. It’s
already a good start. Don’t give up too soon!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>You say that “lack of proper records is hurting Haskell”.
I think it’d help to give much more structure to that
statement. “proper records” means different things to
different people. After all Haskell already has somethng you can
call “records” but they obviously aren’t “proper”
for you. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>So it might be interesting to do several things.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>1. List the interested parties. The Wiki page doesn’t
say who’s interested in this so it’s hard to judge whether the “hurting”
is a widely held opinion or not. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>2. List the possible features that “records” might
mean. For example:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span
style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Anonymous records as a type. So {x::Int, y::Bool} is a
type. (In Haskell as it stands, records are always associated with a
named data type.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span
style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Polymorphic field access. r.x accesses a field in <b>any</b>
record with field x, not just one record type.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span
style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Polymorphic extension<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span
style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Record concatenation<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span
style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Are labels first-class?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span
style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>etc<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:23.25pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Give examples of why each is
useful. Simply writing down these features in a clear way would be
a useful exercise. Probably some are “must have” for some
people, but others might be optional. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:23.25pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>3. Cross-tabulate, for each of the current proposals, say
which features they have.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>4. Reflect on how invasive each proposal would be, given the
existence of type functions. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Simon<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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