<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)"><!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-GB link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hi All,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Is there any chance that we can allow (say) the Haskell committee to have a veto if they think a mistake with systemic consequences is about to be made.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I don’t expect it to be used, but it would signal that the stability or lack thereof of the Haskell libraries has systemic consequences for all Haskell users and other library maintainers.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I do not want a heavyweight process, but it would be good to see some representation of the bigger picture in this process, even if it is generally held in reserve.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Others have a much more experience in these matters – I may be bothering over nothing and complicating things. It is just an idea.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Chris<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> libraries-bounces@haskell.org [mailto:libraries-bounces@haskell.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Simon Peyton-Jones<br><b>Sent:</b> 19 May 2011 13:19<br><b>To:</b> 'Johan Tibell'<br><b>Cc:</b> cvs-ghc@haskell.org; Haskell Libraries<br><b>Subject:</b> New libraries process<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>[Changing subject line; sorry for the odd initial one!]<br><br><br>| "widespread support" is a bit of a wishy-washy phrase. If 7 people<br>| want it, is that widespread support?<br>| ...should be added. However, there's a strong selection bias here and<br>| ...This is one of the places where having a real maintainer is crucial.<br><br>I agree. The maintainer should take account of selection bias. I've added words to that effect.<br><br>| experiencing. If the maintainer is "required" to accept such changes,<br><br>No, we intended that the maintainer is never *required* to accept a change. To quote "the community offers opinions; the maintainer decides". If you think that point should be made even more strongly, can you go ahead and edit?<br><br>| It's not clear when the "deadline for discussion" should be used. Does<br>| it apply to any change or only public API changes? Does it apply even<br>| if it's the maintainer that making the change? Having to spent two<br>| weeks (even though most of the time is spent waiting) to make a single<br>| change is too high an overhead for me. I suspect I would just not<br>| bother making the change.<br><br>Our intention was to make sure that the community had *some* opportunity to comment on a change that may affect them. You point about public APIs is a good one -- for internal changes perhaps all a proposer needs to is to persuade the maintainer. (Or, if the proposer is the maintainer, persuade himself.) <br><br>| To make things more concrete, what steps are<br>| required of the (future) maintainer of containers who wants to add a<br>| strict version of some function (many functions are missing a strict<br>| version at the moment)?<br><br>So this is a public-API change, but you could argue that it's one that cannot hurt a client because it's only widening the interface.<br><br>What about if you wanted to change the signature of a function in the API. Wouldn't it be reasonably to give your community a chance to react?<br><br>| Depends entirely on what the process ends up being.<br><br>Good. I'll be dissatisfied if we don't end up with a process that you think is sane.<br><br>Simon<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Libraries mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Libraries@haskell.org">Libraries@haskell.org</a><br><a href="http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/libraries">http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/libraries</a></span> <o:p></o:p></p><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=1 width="100%" noshade style='color:#A0A0A0' align=center></div><p class=avgcert>No virus found in this message.<br>Checked by AVG - <a href="http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</a><br>Version: 10.0.1325 / Virus Database: 1509/3646 - Release Date: 05/18/11<o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>