How about we stop the arguing and start writing code? I'm happy to help merge patches together.<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 3:37 AM, Alfredo Di Napoli <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:alfredo.dinapoli@gmail.com" target="_blank">alfredo.dinapoli@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
Hello guys,<br>
<br>
let me respond with calm to any of you, and then I'm done, because I'm<br>
starting to get fed up in repeating always the same thing (which are<br>
contained in previous email). From the overall picture, I'm starting to see<br>
why xmonad is in the state it is, and why I've involuntary a nerve. Don't<br>
get me wrong guys, but you are navel-gazing.<br>
<br>
The first thing is about Darcs, and I suspect is strongly related to the<br>
harsh Brandon's comment. In my opinion, you are acting NOT for the sake of<br>
xmonad and for the love of the WM, but in a name of a dogfooding attitude<br>
that I don't share. Even me would like to see Haskell rule the world, and use<br>
it for every possible task, but this is simply not possible in the nowadays<br>
panorama, full of heterogeneous technology. This means that, if for a<br>
particular task I consider git and github to be more effective instruments<br>
for the task at hand, I go for them without thinking twice. What I believe in<br>
is the code base, NOT the VCS. I haven't see a single comment worring about<br>
the code base or the fact people are complaining for the lack of patches.<br>
No. Most of you complained about Github evangelism or other nonsenses. Sorry<br>
If I told you so, but this is the kind of comments that put people off from<br>
the development of anything. But go with order.<br>
<br>
Someone stated (sorry, I can't remember who) that we only need a more active<br>
maintainer and more contributors. Fine. But try to think why we are discussing<br>
all os this, it means that if you hadn't more contributor in the past, you are unlikely<br>
to have them in a near future. Why? Well, because if you don't change<br>
something, things will remain in the same stasis they used to me. From my<br>
humble point of you, this is related to two point: navel-gazing and<br>
doogfooding. Let's face it, and I say it like an Haskell lover and NOT as<br>
a Github evangelist (which I'm not): Darcs is not, and is not going to be<br>
the new de-facto VCS. Face it, but please don't hide behind that fact that<br>
some Haskell project are on Darcs. Haskell ecosystem is not the WHOLE software<br>
ecosystem. There are 100 git repo for every Darcs repo. Please don't get<br>
offended, it's just a matter-of-fact, and as computer guys now and often<br>
we should act with pragmatism. Darcs is a VERY good VCS, but it lacks<br>
infrastructures. Why people contribute on projects on Github or Bitbucket?<br>
For the same reason the iPhone is the most sold phone of the whole time (now<br>
someone will say I'm a Mac evangelist, despite the fact I'm running Linux<br>
while writing). They key here is SIMPLICITY. It I have to contribute to a<br>
project, with a VCS I don't know (and therefore I have to learn), where the<br>
code base isn't browsable online (just to get the gist), where the bug<br>
tracker is scattered and hosted on google project, why on earth should I<br>
contribute? In the name of the holy flame of Haskell? No, people don't<br>
think like this. They like to have the "pussy-features", like integrated<br>
wiki, bug tracker, online code browsing. They just clone a repo, hack on it,<br>
do a pull request and whoever has the admin rights can merge the patch. I<br>
repeat, whoever has the admin rights.<br>
<br>
What I proposed with the Github organization was a means to decouple xmonad<br>
development with a single maintainer. In an organization, whoever is an<br>
owner can fix things, and this a great deal more handy to have a<br>
maintainer bottleneck. I've also followed all the due procedure, I've<br>
contacted Adam, I've contacted you first, I have invited all people I've<br>
talked to to join the organization, I've said 1000 times I'm NOT the leader<br>
of anything, but still Ivan comment's let intend that my initiative was<br>
perceived like a one-man evangelist that wants to bring everything under<br>
Github because is cool. Sorry, but that was not my intention, and some guys<br>
of the ML have understood this, thankfully.<br>
<br>
Now the navel-gazing part. While you are discussing whether the google code<br>
advanced search is more sophisticated that Github one, or that the project<br>
should go on Darcs hubs (who cares if is used mainly for Haskell project, it<br>
requires you to register just to browse things, and in the main page I can't<br>
find a project search box to search for things. But hey, it's written in<br>
Haskell for Haskellers, so you should use it!).<br>
While you are discussing this, people are asking for months the Java patch<br>
to be incorporated into the xmonad:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://code.google.com/p/xmonad/issues/detail?id=177" target="_blank">http://code.google.com/p/xmonad/issues/detail?id=177</a><br>
<br>
Incidentally, I had to patch the code myself, despite my efforts to contact<br>
Adam to fix things. In your opinion, why this patch hasn't been incorporated<br>
yet? Mine is that is over complicated to do so, and a system LIKE Github<br>
(can be also Bitbucket or whatever) lowers the contribution bar at the<br>
point whoever can simply code, patch and pull-request.<br>
<br>
To conclude this poem, I think I've summarized my point of view. I don't<br>
want to create a fracture in the community, and as already stated in my<br>
prev email, I'm NOBODY: I have submitted ZERO patches to xmonad, so Gwern,<br>
I do believe in do-ocracy too, but I repeat, once again, I've also kickstarted<br>
the whole thing, I'm not the leader of anything. I just started from a<br>
consideration, followed by a proposed solution to fix things up, and I've<br>
seen some other people share my thoughts, and I can't ignore them.<br>
<br>
So Ivan, I've not taken the crown off anyone's head, I'm only a Haskell and<br>
xmonad lover that wants to see his beloved WM maintained and patched. I'm<br>
beyond the VCS, because I care about THE CODE, sentiment I've struggle to<br>
find in some replies to my initiative.<br>
<br>
It would have been awesome if the whole community agreed upon the initiative,<br>
and once again I encourage you to let me know if you want to be added to the<br>
Github organization. If the name bothers you, we can even change its names and<br>
start a new fork. It would be an awful thing, with so many effort thrown away,<br>
but if It will be the only viable solution, just as well.<br>
After all, open source code is - well - open source. The guys from<br>
Copenhagen are patching their own version of xmonad, so we could start from<br>
there. You even cared that their fork was actively maintained on Github, so<br>
why bother is we developed a different fork on our own?<br>
<br>
I think of having expressed all my points. Sorry if the English wasn't perfect<br>
but as you may imply, I'm not a native English speaker.<br>
I don't think I will answer further to this thread, I said all I had to say.<br>
<br>
If you want to support our new, unofficial initiative, feel free to.<br>
You know where to find us.<br>
<br>
The Github sinners<br>
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
xmonad mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:xmonad@haskell.org">xmonad@haskell.org</a><br>
<a href="http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/xmonad" target="_blank">http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/xmonad</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>